General Messages

Good to see ideas coming up how to release a small group of volunteers doing a lot of work.
The proposed idea does help, but also adds complexity going over multiple seasons for several categories.

But I disagree with the less is more argument. A lot of managers get some sort of acknowledgement or encouragement from all the awards we have now. The risk of less categories is that smaller or newer teams will have lesser chance of getting an award.
I would rather go for a simple solution where it doesn't matter how many categories we have: just have an open vote. People can type in the form who they would vote for. From there it is only counting the votes. The risk is unfair voting because there is some agreement amongst managers to vote for someone who actually does not deserve it. Just let it be. It is a compliment to the awards that people take it very serious. Other thing could be that people have no idea who to vote on, but that does not have to be our problem.

The time that we spare out we can invest in writing on the front page

Agree, third flavour to choose from would be an U23-team award in rotation.

@Silenzio,

Yes, the skipped season(s) would indeed still count for the category when it is held.

U-23 Rider is probably either a leave out or have in fully, as me and Micheal discussed when you were typing your comment.
Tour Team is the best category that would be sacrificed indeed, but it could be added to the rotation depending on what we decide on U23 and Old Rider.

(edit on Michael: I don't mind doing Tour Team, it is quite a bit of work, but at least you know where to find everything, I prefer it over the calculation categories myself)

Don Hamstre wrote:Yeah, I just realised that was why you added U-23 to the every season categories. It is a very good point, and since U-23 is comparable to WT (it's own thing), I think it fits. 

Old Rider feels a bit weird in the rotation though (for the same reasoning but opposite). I have no issue with uneven numbers between seasons, but if we do want exactly 10 each season, I'd say Tour Team is the most suitable to the rotation.

Yea, no, that makes sense, Old Rider out

See what everyone else thinks, Best tour Team over 2 seasons could be a nightmare to complete though (not sure if I was missing a trick, but when I did 1 season worth a while ago I found it the hardest category I've ever done)

I am a fan, especially of the initial version, considering the situation of less volunteers.

For the rotating categories I would hope that not only the past season, but all seasons since the last version would count (whether that might be 2, 3 or 4).

Best U23-rider is a questionable category to have, and might be a potential category to abandon altogether, especially considering other categories that will stop existing. If it's a rotating thing it would make more sense in the first place to make it a team-award than an individual rider award.

A shame to see tour team disappear, but the awareness and importance of tours is large enough as it stands, and the winning of tours is a big part of the best manager award already, so no need to continue necessarily.

Yeah, I just realised that was why you added U-23 to the every season categories. It is a very good point, and since U-23 is comparable to WT (it's own thing), I think it fits. 

Old Rider feels a bit weird in the rotation though (for the same reasoning but opposite). I have no issue with uneven numbers between seasons, but if we do want exactly 10 each season, I'd say Tour Team is the most suitable to the rotation.

I like your counter proposal, only thing I would say is U-23 being every other season. Some riders might have a great 22 y/o season, but then miss out on a nomination due to not having any eligible results/points in the second season.

Could that category be added to will stay, then old rider replaces U-23 in the rotation, so it would be 10 categories each season, with 5 constants and 5 rotations? Each committee member takes a constant and a rotation category to complete?

I don't think that is drastic enough. It's hard enough doing 2 categories every season for most of the members, so with 12 categories, you'd still need a 6 member committee ideally. 
But, you do make a good point on the rotation over 3 seasons being a bit large. 

So my counterproposal would be 

Categories that will stay:

Best Rider
Best Manager
Best WT Manager
Best Young Rider

Categories that will rotate (grouping between brackets):

Best Sprinter (1)
Best Climber (2)
Best Hiller (1)
Best Time Trialer (2)
Best FR Rider (1)
Best Cobbler (2)
Best Downhiller (1)
Best WT Rider (2)
Best U23 Rider (1)
Best Tour Rider (2)

Categories that will stop (can be discussed since some could rotate in another season):

Best Old Rider
Best Rider Outside Top Division
Best Young Team
Best One Nation Team
Best Tour Team


Which brings us at 9 each season (10 with Old rider, but I'd prefer it to be gone personally)
What I also like about this rotation, is that all the specialist categories are rotated, and only the 'main' categories remain every season. I see why Climber and Sprinter could be made every season categories, as they are the main specialties. But since those are represented in Best Rider and/or young rider as well, I feel like it'd be ok to have them rotate as well.

Hi all,

I like the idea of the change, maybe we could amend some of the every season categories possibly:

Every Season:

Best Manager
Best WT Manager
Best Rider
Best Old Rider
Best Young Rider
Best U-23 Rider
Best Sprinter
Best Climber
Best Tour Rider

Rotate Every Other Season:

Best Hiller (1)
Best Time Trialer (2)
Best FR Rider (1)
Best Cobbler (2)
Best Downhiller (2)
Best WT Rider (1)

Remove:

Best Rider Outside Top Division
Best Young Team
Best One Nation Team
Best Tour Team

So 12 categories, meaning if we did drop to 4 members, that would only be a maximum of 3 categories each, and if we stay at 5 members, 2 categories with two doing 3. Will also mean the rotation categories aren't as hefty as we'll only be looking at 2 seasons of results instead of 3 seasons

Confirmed members:

Don (Chairman)
Frank (Chairman)
Michael
PJM
Silenzio


Change is coming to the Awards!

Unfortunately we no longer have the community engagement necessary to keep the Awards at the same size. The last seasons have depended on someone having time to do a lot of categories, and that is just not sustainable. At first I was thinking about scrapping a lot of categories. But then someone on chat offered a much better solution: we'll keep just 4 categories every season, and all the other categories will rotate every 3 seasons. This means all categories will still have winners, but they will cover more than one season. With the help of chilibot, this should definitely be doable for most categories. For a few categories this won't work, my suggestion is to stop having those.

Categories that will stay:

Best Rider
Best Manager
Best WT Manager
Best Young Rider

Categories that will rotate (grouping between brackets):

Best Sprinter (1)
Best Climber (2)
Best Hiller (3)
Best Time Trialer (1)
Best FR Rider (2)
Best Cobbler (3)
Best Downhiller (1)
Best WT Rider (2)
Best U23 Rider (3)
Best Tour Rider (1)

Categories that will stop (can be discussed since some could rotate in another season):

Best Old Rider
Best Rider Outside Top Division
Best Young Team
Best One Nation Team
Best Tour Team


This would mean that for this season, we'll have the following categories:


Best Rider
Best Manager
Best WT Manager
Best Young Rider
Best Sprinter
Best Time Trialer
Best Downhiller
Best Tour Rider


8 or 7 categories per season is very doable, even with very small committees. I could be convinced to add Old Rider and/or Rider Outside Top Division to the every season categories, but I think less is more in general.