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Best Young Rider

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Twan_GewoonRechtdoor
Holwerda
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Post  Don Hamstre Tue May 18, 2021 8:04 am

Varela takes 1 spot with 5 votes.
The other spot sees Fava and Harmannus tied 3-3. Funnily enough I would have voted for Roesner and make it a three way tie, but that's not the job of a tie breaker. Wink
So my tie breaking vote goes to Fava, and he makes it onto the form.

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Post  English Sprinting Team Sat May 15, 2021 1:30 pm

Voted

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Post  Fox_River_Max Thu May 13, 2021 7:29 pm

No-one will be surprised I voted for Fava and Harmannus.

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Post  paceuts Thu May 13, 2021 4:19 pm

Voted for Fava and Varela.

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Post  Fox_River_Max Thu May 13, 2021 1:05 pm

To vote #4 (voting for two additional nominees out of these four):

Name: Lowie Harmannus
Team: Pelles Gazelles
Age: 23 at season start
OCM Tour Rank: 16th
OCM Tour Points: 1086
5 other results, including 6th at Astana GP, and 2nd in Tweedaagse van Antwerpen YC (all Div. 1)

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Post  Fox_River_Max Thu May 13, 2021 1:03 pm

To vote #3 (voting for two additional nominees out of these four):

Name: Elias Roesner
Team: English Sprinting Team
Age: 24 at season start
OCM Tour Rank: 31st
OCM Tour Points: 915
2 Wins (1 Div. 2, 1 Div. 3)
6 Other results, including 8th at Rotterdam Classic, 2nd in Vuelta a Valparaìso SC (1 Div. 1.2, 2 Div. 2, 3 Div. 3)

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Post  Fox_River_Max Thu May 13, 2021 1:00 pm

To vote #2 (voting for two additional nominees out of these four):

Name: Xalbador Varela
Team: Zalom
Age: 24 at start of season
OCM Tour Rank: 87th
OCM Tour Points: 650
2 wins, including Helsinki GP Mini (Div. 1.1 and Div 2)
3 other results, including Nederlandse Tour - 2nd in YC and 7th in GC, 3rd at Vejle-København (2 in Div. 1.1, 1 ND)

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Post  Fox_River_Max Thu May 13, 2021 12:58 pm

To vote #1 (voting for two additional nominees out of these four):

Name: Arnoldo Fava
Team: Nefal
Age: 23 at season start
OCM Tour Rank: 13th
OCM Tour Points: 1120
3 other results, including 3rd in Germany Tour Sprint Classification (All Div. 1)

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Post  Fox_River_Max Thu May 13, 2021 12:56 pm

Nominated (no vote required):

Name: Hannes Traa
Team: Holwerda Cycling
Age: 23 at season start
OCM Tour Rank: 51st
OCM Tour Points: 780
2 Wins, including Germany Tour YC (Both Division 1)
2 Other Results, including 2nd on Germany Tour, 9th Zürich-Bern-Zürich (Both Div. 1)

Name: Amare Maharjan
Team: Alpine
Age: 23 at start of season
OCM Tour Rank: 62nd
OCM Tour Points: 710
2 wins, including 1st in Tweedaagse van Antwerpen YC (All Div.1)
4 other results, including 8th in Roubaix Classic, and 2nd in Tweedaagse van Antwerpen GC (All Div. 1)

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Post  Fox_River_Max Thu May 13, 2021 12:49 pm

Sounds good to me too. Will update all the posts in a few minutes.

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Post  Don Hamstre Thu May 13, 2021 9:12 am

Agreed with that conclusion!

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Post  Twan_GewoonRechtdoor Thu May 13, 2021 8:41 am

Your opinion is always sought after, paceuts. We are just honored you share it here Wink

The analysis is good. My suggestion would be to put Hannes and Maharjan in for sure, with Fava, Varela, Roesner and Hermannus in the vote for 2 spots.

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Post  paceuts Thu May 13, 2021 5:10 am

Sorry for the delay, didn't notice my opinion was sought after Smile This is a really tough category indeed. Here's my take.

I also think Fava and Harmannus are not so invincible... For example, 7 of Fava's top-9s came from Germany Tour. Other than that, he has only 1 podium.

For Harmannus, only 2 podiums outside Tweedagse, and Maharjan's head-to-head against him shows a clear winner. Maharjan was also competing with Van Wontergem on his team... For me, Maharjan > Harmannus.

Similarly, Brasil has only 1 podium not on a stage/classification, whereas Roesner has 4. Roesner also clearly wins head to head with Valparaiso and Mollerup. (By the way, you have a mistake for Roesner, it was Valparaiso SC not Porto). For me, Roesner > Brasil. But then probably Varela > Roesner anyways.

So to me that leaves Traa, Maharjan, Varela, Fava / Harmannus / Roesner / Engalychev

I know that's not a lot of headway but maybe some synthesis can be reached. Smile

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Post  Don Hamstre Wed May 12, 2021 4:22 pm

Well, Roesner did beat Brasil in a straight duel. But other than that, I did get fooled by his current ranking vs the S56 ranking, so he is slightly less good than I thought.

I have no issues with voting for 2 spots instead of 1, and only having Amare and Hannes in for sure. A vote on all is a bit complicated, I rather not have a mess to that extent.

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Post  Fox_River_Max Wed May 12, 2021 4:19 pm

Or just put all potential nominees to a vote in front of the committee? I may just have a different opinion to the other committee members on this topic.

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Post  Fox_River_Max Wed May 12, 2021 4:17 pm

I still don't see Roesner over Brasil to be straight into the nominations.  Somebody make a case there - what is lifting him up?  

Brasil had more results, higher ranking and points, raced in a higher division mostly, and had top 9 in two classics.

Name: Douglas Brasil
Team: Time Indaiatuba
Age: 23 at season start
OCM Tour Rank: 26th
OCM Tour Points: 935
1 Win (Div. 2)
9 other results, including 9th Grasse - Toulon and 7th Vejle-København, 3rd in Volta a Porto SC (7 Div 2, 1 Div. 1.1, 1 ND)

Name: Elias Roesner
Team: Elias Roesner
Age: 24 at season start
OCM Tour Rank: 31st
OCM Tour Points: 915
2 Wins (1 Div. 2, 1 Div. 3)
6 Other results, including 8th at Rotterdam Classic, 2nd in Vuelta a Valparaìso SC (1 Div. 1.2, 2 Div. 2, 3 Div. 3)


(I genuinely am struggling with Fava being put to a vote.  He was the best young rider by rank and points and raced against Div 1 teams the entire time. Highist point total on his team.  How do we feel about just a six-way public vote?

Fava, Traa, Maharjan, Brasil, Roesner, Varela?

)


Last edited by Fox_River_Max on Thu May 13, 2021 12:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post  Don Hamstre Wed May 12, 2021 3:46 pm

I agree with Elias Roesner having had a great season, I would put him in.
I also agree with Amare and Hannes being in the top-3.
Varela in the vote is 100% fine, and feel free to leave Fava in the vote, because I can understand if others feel less strongly about wins as I do, so let's give him a chance.

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Post  Fox_River_Max Wed May 12, 2021 3:04 pm

oof.  cut-throat.  

Need another opinion then?

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Post  Don Hamstre Wed May 12, 2021 2:29 pm

I personally feel that at least 1 win is necessary to be nominated in any category. So I would leave out both Fava and Lowie myself tbh.

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Post  Twan_GewoonRechtdoor Wed May 12, 2021 2:12 pm

I honestly wouldn't vote for Lowie if he was up against Elias in the vote. Lowies' biggest achievement was the 2nd place in the TvA YC, but another contender for this price beat him there. And yes, he was consistent, but so was Elias.

Of course Elias, Douglas, Lowie, Xalbador, even Ciceron and David are all very close to eachother, so it will be a matter of taste here. Lets see what paceuts thinks.

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Post  Fox_River_Max Wed May 12, 2021 1:24 pm

(Edit format for comment in other thread.)

Hmmm... I think my problem here is that I don't see much separation between Varela (which I took as a community nomination from Silenzio) , Brasil, and Roesner, and even removing Engalychev (who rode in Division 1 - unlike these three) doesn't solve that problem.

It may not be necessary to vote on this one if we can get a confident top 4, which to me is still clearly:

Arnoldo Fava
Lowie Harmannus
Hannes Traa
Amare Maharjan

Can anyone else chime in or make a case for it not just being those four? I personally really can't justify removing Harmannus in favor of the lower division riders. Fava & Harmannus' div. 1 consistency is incredible.

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Post  Twan_GewoonRechtdoor Tue May 11, 2021 5:09 pm

Fava and Lowie really did great of course, but they didnt win anything... Amare and Xalbador did. And so did Elias, who had a pretty amazing season as well (2 wins, 6 results, 31st in the ranking).

To be honest my list would be Fava, Amare and Hannes in for sure, then Elias, Lowie in the vote. Could add Douglas or Ciceron if you want 3 in the vote, I would still prefer them over David.

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Post  Fox_River_Max Sat May 08, 2021 3:09 pm

I'm finished adjusting to take away cup YC, which takes away from Varela below as well (if I've edited correctly). (and from short-listed Traore)

The other short list riders still far short of the nominees (imo), so will leave the rest alone, including Engalychev (and will assume voting will take care of him). It would be between Engalychev and Brasil for that third voting spot in my mind.

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Post  Holwerda Sat May 08, 2021 8:11 am

Good question.
We never take Cup YC into consideration, because there is no classificatie for it and also no jersey. The win on the profile is a bug.

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Post  Fox_River_Max Fri May 07, 2021 10:58 pm

Don't count as a win towards the awards consideration?

(Shows as a 'win' on the profile, which is why I'm asking:
"
Results of Season 56
Wins: 1
Second: 0
Third: 0
Total: 5
"
)

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